Curse

MercenaryKnight · Sep 02, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Well as everyone has seen the other thread about how the skills for the most part are garbage and discussing more or less the plain skills by themselves.

I was thinking their should be a thread for the more optemistic people who can see the silver linings throughought all the nerf's to come up with any new interesting pvp builds.

We've already seen a 100+% chance crit sin build from gw:en skills. Just curious as to what everyone else is cooking up/ toying around with.

moko · Sep 02, 2007, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

We've already seen a 100+% chance crit sin build from gw:en skills. Just curious as to what everyone else is cooking up/ toying around with.

which is utter garbage while taking up too many skills to even do something decent with it.

MercenaryKnight · Sep 02, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Well hey I never said it was you know gonna go win halls, but just about anything works in ra. Which is what this is geared towards.

I was in a group who did well even though we had half heal half mm monk.

Also, i'm used to playing pressure chars for pvp more than spikers. I was wondering what kind of chars are true spikers.

I am assuming assassins are the main form of spikers with their +damage and conditions. I have seen deadly arts variant and ones who use daggers, but never get a chance to see their skill bars.

Any suggestions on some of those builds?

Symbol · Sep 02, 2007, 05:55 AM // 05:55

I've been using purifying veil along with golden phoenix strike on my moebius sin. Having 43% blind, cripple, bleeding, and weakness reduction (6 prot prayers + runes) is pretty nice, as well as the ability to remove dangerous conditions like deep wound instantly. Having a 8s recharge straight offhand is even nicer, as it mitigates the one point of fragility of the build (the opener).

Dunno how well it would play in GvG but moebius strikers are pretty scary in the arenas (both RA and TA).

moriz · Sep 02, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08

for now, most of the new skills will be used in existing builds to shore up some shortcomings. i've already experimented with running sloth hunter's shot (at 10 marks) on my cripshot. this single skill change has made my cripshot's damage capability comparable to a BA ranger. crazy skill deals 93 damage critical on a softy. it has also made the escape ranger quite viable also.

grapple already looks to be very powerful on steady stance warriors. an essentially unconditional knockdown on a character that can't be KD'd? yes please.

while NF was the campaign that introduced a whole slew of burning-causing skills, GW:EN seems to introduce a ton of new ways to inflict weakness. withering aura and ward of weakness can be used to spread it on everything that moves. don't know if this will actually mean anything or not, but it will certainly make linebacking much easier as well as pushing stoning into the metagame on dervishes (maybe).

the new lotus offhand attacks will finally allow assassins to divorce from impale and twisting fangs. lead attacks will see a large increase in playing time.

moko · Sep 02, 2007, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

for now, most of the new skills will be used in existing builds to shore up some shortcomings. i've already experimented with running sloth hunter's shot (at 10 marks) on my cripshot. this single skill change has made my cripshot's damage capability comparable to a BA ranger. crazy skill deals 93 damage critical on a softy. it has also made the escape ranger quite viable also.

grapple already looks to be very powerful on steady stance warriors. an essentially unconditional knockdown on a character that can't be KD'd? yes please.

while NF was the campaign that introduced a whole slew of burning-causing skills, GW:EN seems to introduce a ton of new ways to inflict weakness. withering aura and ward of weakness can be used to spread it on everything that moves. don't know if this will actually mean anything or not, but it will certainly make linebacking much easier as well as pushing stoning into the metagame on dervishes (maybe).

the new lotus offhand attacks will finally allow assassins to divorce from impale and twisting fangs. lead attacks will see a large increase in playing time.

Grapple was fixed, but overall you're right -- i don't think there will be *many* completely new builds based on a new [lame] concept nobody would've ever expected before (deadly arts assassins for example) but instead just update the existing dominant builds with one or two better skills.

Red Apple · Sep 02, 2007, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Remove Hex will be replaced for Spottless Mind when two healers are available.

The only downside I see to the monk spells is that most are on other targets and no over the caster ;___;.

Zuranthium · Sep 02, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

which is utter garbage while taking up too many skills to even do something decent with it.

So far, this is the best I've thought of to use that new Way of the Warrior thingy:

A/P

Critical Strikes - 12+1+1
Spear Mastery - 12

VICIOUS ATTACK, HARRIER'S TOSS, WILD THROW, CRITICAL DEFENSES, DARK APOSTASY, WAY OF THE WARRIOR, CRITICAL EYE, REZ SIG.

Close to 80% of your attacks will critical and remove an enchantment. Vicious + Harrier's gives you a good spike and Wild Throw gives you a much better chance of cutting through SoD and such so your Warriors may train happily. Critical Defenses lends durability.

I'd definitely like to test it in a place of a standard Cruel Spear Paragon. It's going to be less damage (and you don't get the option of putting a hard rez on this guy) but can the crazy amount of enchantment removal make up for it?

~Z

moriz · Sep 02, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

there are better ways to remove enchantments. not to mention, dedicating an entire character just to score some critical hits and remove enchantments is a poor use of a player slot.

Riotgear · Sep 02, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

The problem with Way of the Warrior is more in the lack of benefit from running secondary-derived melee on an Assassin primary, which lacks the strong support abilities that warriors and rangers can provide when doing the same. Dark Apostasy is OK, but if I wanted a spear-chucker with decent enchant burn potential, I'd be more likely to bring a P/N with Corrupt.

Way of the Warrior will be more useful in PvE, lots of big crits from scythes that give you lots of energy in the process = win.

Thomas.knbk · Sep 02, 2007, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Mind blaster with ward of weakness? Who needs Bsurge?
Way of the Warrior is a stupid skill. I don't care if I get some crits on my scythe, I still won't be able to go above 12 scythe mastery and I won't be able to use Wearying Strike because I'm unable to turn into a tree if my primary profession is assassin. Spotless Mind might see some use on a utility bitch character ala the current bsurge, but I think the fact that the first hex is removed after 5 seconds pretty much kills it as real removal.

Morgoth the dark · Sep 02, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

RT smiter with ghostly weapon. GG, unblockeable weapon on warrior, condition removal with wiealders remedy and good energy managment with wiealders zeal + smite hex, smite condition to remove even more annoying things.

suiraCLAW · Sep 02, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

I won't be able to use Wearying Strike because I'm unable to turn into a tree if my primary profession is assassin.

Assassins remedy + wearying strike...

Turbobusa · Sep 02, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

which is another enchant. critical sins are way too vulnerable to enchant removal and to be honnest, after trying one, you need so many skills to have a really high chance of critical + rez that you end up with 2-3 utility/attack skills.
fun but not worth it in pvp

Zuranthium · Sep 03, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

there are better ways to remove enchantments.

There are quicker ways to remove spot enchantments; the point of the A/P would be to train people and constantly remove their prots. Cruel Spear Paragons do what again? Damage. Absolutely nothing else (aside from perhaps having your team's Hard Rez). The only question is if the A/P's constant enchant removal equals out to the Paragon's greater damage (but do realize the A/P still does solid damage as well and also throws around the ranged Deep Wounds more frequently). It's worth testing.

It can be pretty good for TA anyway:

(previous sin left so we got a replacement; gave up at 40 because people were tired)

~Z

Farin · Sep 03, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Cruel Spear Paragons do what again? Damage. Absolutely nothing else

Aside from bringing WYSelf+Shields Up/Mirror/GFTE/PReturn/Anthem of Flame/Having a perma IAS they don't really do anything, you're right.I think Cruel Spear usually kills people but what do I know.

You are pretty dumb.

yule · Sep 03, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

I won't be able to use Wearying Strike because I'm unable to turn into a tree if my primary profession is assassin.

Sig of Malice = win

Turbobusa · Sep 03, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

There's an aftercast after signet of malice. I don't want one. I'm screwed.

Ho wouldn't be purifying veil good on a flag runner? I remember me using shield + rune when running in burning isle, it gave me a nice advantage. mending touch removes 2 but the other make them go away quicker and can be removed if it's really annoying

Zuranthium · Sep 03, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaZoO

Aside from bringing WYSelf+Shields Up/Mirror/GFTE/PReturn/Anthem of Flame/Having a perma IAS they don't really do anything, you're right.I think Cruel Spear usually kills people but what do I know.

I said that Anthem/GFTE/IAS are all just damage (and they are), not that they don't do anything. I'm also talking specifically about a bar that is Cruel Spear/Wild Throw/Spear of Lightning/Harrier's Toss/GFTE/Anthem/Agressive Refrain/Rez Sig. That has been run with success and it's NOTHING but ranged physical damage. Certain one-dimensional characters can work.

With the A/P you lose the IAS, 2 ranks of Weapon Attribute, Spear of Lightning, the shouts that can help your Warriors dish out a bit more damage, and your Deep Wound skill (Vicious vs. Cruel) does a little less damage. That is quite a lot. The benefits are that all of your attacks act as if they are under the effect of GFTE, you can cause deep wound more often, and your attacks will remove enchantments very frequently.

How powerful that enchantment removal can be is a question mark. I don't think the game has ever seen bigger stacks of enchants than what is currently being run. You'll see teams where the LoD has PS + SoA, the Prot monk has SoD + SB + Shielding Hands, and the runner has Armor of Mist + SoR + Guardian. There will be at least one Holy Veil in there too. Although the A/P isn't at Avatar of Grenth level, it still might be enough to make simply training people beneficial at times (either because the prots are unexpectedly removed and you get a kill or because energy is being wasted on prots that don't stick for very long and the opposing team is forced to pull back).

Peripheral enchants such as Conjures, Attunement, and Heart of Fury are also common and it helps to keep them down as much as possible. The flip side of the argument is when you face a NR/Tranq build. Now the A/P is pretty bad. It's definitely a more specific role and if the risk vs. reward doesn't equal out, then obviously the character won't cut it. It's not on the top of my list for things to try in GvG but I still think it would be interesting to see nonetheless.

~Z

Farin · Sep 03, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

I still fail to see the point on how a character with 70 AL and extreme dependence on enchantments is even being though of as a replacement for a 80 AL(plus shield), faster attack speed, utility paragon. Maybe it can get you 40 wins in TA but I don't think I would ever consider dropping a paragon for it in a serious GvG game.